Twins Talk: A TKOT Roundtable

In the past couple weeks there have been major swings in optimism and pessimism regarding the current Twins season, as well as the major concerns for the offseason and the future. Because of this, we here at TKOT decided to have a little discussion about what needs to be done concerning the future of the franchise, especially in the next few years as we prepare for the new ballpark and the potential of some very talented Twins teams. The following is the transcript of that discussion:

Fuzz—Here’s a list of potential players and salaries that come off the books next year: Silva- 4.3 million, Rincon- 2 million (we're trying to trade him right now, I assume he's gone), Ortiz- 3.1 million, Rondell White- 2.5 million, Castillo- 5.7 million, Cirillo- 1.5 million. If my math is right, that's 19.1 million. Let's round up to 20 million withPonson off the books as well. We have 20 million next year that will be available. We have to do something with this money. Personally, I think the decision to randomly cut Cirillo and dump Castillo was to clear room for Hunter.

Tank—I used to say cut Hunter, but I say we need him more than anything right now. I think he's our MVP this year. I think we will sign him.

Mr. Cue—As afraid as I am of Hunter getting a big deal from us and then crapping the bed, I think you have to sign him. We have no one in the minors and quality centerfielders are hard to come by. Pay him, pay Santana, pay Morneau, get in the new ballpark, and roll tide.

NBA Fan—We can't pay everybody. Pay Morneau and Santana and take your chances. I don't want to sign Hunter this offseason and then have TR come out and say we don't have the money for the other two.

Mr. Cue—Why not? Like Fuzz said, we've got around 20 million freed up for next year and Hunter is already making 12 million this year. We'd only have to bump that by about 3 million. Then you still have some extra money to finance the other two contracts. All we need is for Pohlad to open that creaky wallet a little more and we'd be fine. Plus, with a new ballpark and the World Series title we'll have in the next couple years, we have plenty of extra revenue coming in.

NBA Fan—Neither Morneau or Santana is going to sign for $5 million per year. Plus Cuddyer's salary is going to go up next year regardless of whether he signs a multi-year deal or goes through arbitration. We eventually have to pay Neshek. I worry that we pay Hunter big for 5 years, but he’s only worth it for 2 years as his body is breaking down. So his last 3 years we pay for very mediocre production. Why not just sign Morneau and Santana and sign a stop gap veteran for a year or two until somebody is ready to take over?

Mr. Cue—Don’t forget that we also have Nathan under contract for a few mil and either we trade him or his contract is up after next year. That's more money we have for guys like Cuddy and Neshek. Plus, Pat can't demand much money yet.

NBA Fan—Neshek is probably not eligible for arbitration until after the 2009 season, but if we sign Hunter to a big deal, it makes keeping other guys tougher, especially since we sign crappy players like Punto, Crain, and Rincon to multi year deals. I just don't think we can start giving big deals to aging outfielders with very average offensive production when we have younger guys who are more productive or have a higher ceiling. I do believe that we could replace .265/25 bombs/80 RBI/.750 OPS with somebody like Kubel if we would ever just play him full time. Remember that it took Cuddyer 5 years to finally play fulltime at one position. You are correct about Nathan, though. His last year as a Twin will probably be next year, and at that time we can use his money (around $6 million, I think) towards Santana, Morneua, or even Neshek.

Tank—Neshek is a set up guy. He won’t get paid that much money. If he becomes our closer, he might get paid a little more, but he’s still young. It’s called increased payroll. They need to figure it out.

Fuzz—Screw this, we're in another 1-0 barn burner as we speak. We need Hunter big time. How can you just let those stats walk and "wait" for a guy for 2-3 years? That's ludicrous. Yes, you might over pay the guy, but without him we're going to be hurting even more. That's not good, especially since we're in the bottom four in the American league in total runs. We can't afford just to let guys walk. I'm with Tank, increase the flipping payroll Carl...

NBA Fan—I would love to increase the payroll. As things stand now though, we are not in a position to pay everybody. Besides, Hunter's been in the middle of our lineup throughout our run scoring drought.

Mr. Cue—Isn’t that a reason to sign him? He’s in the middle of our lineup, hitting .280 with 22 bombs, and we’re still struggling to score. How much worse would it get with someone vastly inferior hitting in his spot?

Fuzz—Exactly! This is making no sense, Fan. Hunter is top 5 in the AL in homeruns and top 7 in the AL in RBI. How would it benefit us to get rid of that with our scoring drought? We need him like a fat kid needs cake. Isn’t that a 50 Cent song?

NBA Fan—That is my point. Why can't we pay somebody $3 million a year to score no runs? Why do we need to pay Hunter $15 million per year to score no runs? It seems to me we are farther away from World Series contention than just one player. Maybe if Liriano comes back next year like he used to be and Garza keeps pitching well, having Hunter will push us over the edge to serious contender. I would much rather pay somebody like Adam Dunn to DH and put Span in center than have Hunter in our lineup, top 5 center fielder or not. I DO NOT want to see Hunter back here next year.

And on that note, we’ll end our debate…for now. Do you have a thought on resigning Hunter (or Morneau, Santana, Cuddyer, Neshek, Nathan, etc.)? Leave us your thoughts in the comments section.

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Twins Future=Now

“It hurts doesn't it? Your hopes dashed, your dreams down the toilet”


That’s Teddy KGB talking to Mikey McD. in Rounders, but I think this same phrase can be used for Twins fans everywhere. As short as a couple days ago, Twins fans got a small glimpse of hope. A little crack in the pennant race window. We won a home series versus the division leading Indians and the Detroit Tigers lost their fifth game in a row. We sat only 4 ½ games back of the division. It was super. We were back in the conversation baby. When ESPN showed the standings, our sweet “TC” logo popped up! Side note: Who doesn’t love our logo? I love it. It has to be top five in the league. Thoughts? Anyways, forget the fact that it was at the bottom of the screen, it was still flipping there. “We’re comin, we’re comin” was back in the lingo of Twins fans across the state. It was awesome. Now...



Teddy’s right. It does hurt; it stings real good Mr. KGB. Detroit and Cleveland rattled off two quick wins, while the Twins were baffled by the “talented” Royals pitching, dropping their last two. Side note: You know you have a team hitting problem when you can’t hit pitching from arms that mirror Johnny Damon & Shannon Stewart. Anyways, we’re off the ESPN screen now and on the back burner again. Ohhhh, how quickly things change. This shouldn’t surprise us though. This has been the pattern all year, so the last couple days have simply been a mirage. We were suckered again. It’s sad to say, but we’re not winning the division and we’re not making the playoffs. Yes, I just said it. Take a moment... We might even make a little run in early September, where we climb back within 3-4 games or something like that. But, we’re not going to get over the hump. We don’t have the offense. Period.

That’s why this off-season might be the most important ever in Twins history or at least the last 15 years. I know this is a huge cliché and gets thrown out far too frequently, but it’s true. You have young superstars in their absolute prime right now. That would be Mauer, Morneau, & Santana if you’re wondering. Then you have good ballplayers but not superstars playing well right now: Hunter, Nathan, Neshek and Cuddyer. I mean, wake up and smell the coffee front office! This is your window. You’re getting invaluable experience with your young staff this year. Bonser, Garza, & Baker are all getting quality innings and are all getting familiar with big league hitters. Truthfully, who really knows about Liriano? We can win it without him, but with him, you’d have to put our staff in the top three heading into next year. I don’t think that’s even a stretch. The problem isn’t our pitching though, it’s obviously are hitting.



So...I’m with Santana on this one. Here are his comments one week ago on not attaining a bat:

"That's why we're never going to go beyond where we've gone. It's not just about hope. In a realistic world, you have to really make it happen and go for it.”

Terry, stop signing tools like Ortiz, Ponson, Batista, White, Cirillo and all the other bargain basement puds you pull in every year. We’re sick of it. They all suck and it’s wasting money. Listen to your biggest asset on your team and…go for it! Yes, this might take some convincing of the big swinging dicks upstairs, but make your case. Sell them that spending just a little more money places you in great position to hoist up the trophy at the end of the year. Another side note: The great thing about this is that I know TR is reading this. Huge TK on Toast fan. Huge.

Sign Hunter, bench Punto, bring in one good (proven) bat and another solid bat and let’s roll! I personally think we’re two bats away, not one like most people believe. We’ve been shutout 10 times this year. We need two. This organization seems to be building for the future the last decade. The future is right now ladies and gentleman. I don’t know about you guys, but I want to be sloppy drunk downtown next October for a meaningful playoff run. I want to be at some random bar for every playoff game giving high fives to other baseball nerds and kissing the Twins hotties. It might be a little early to talk about next year and I’m a big enough homer not to give up on this season, but I’m trying to be realistic. TR messed up this year and we all know it. It’s time to fix it.

In the meantime, we have this to look forward to all winter:



How fast can you say #1 pick? Exactly. They’re years away of me being sloppy drunk downtown in June.

Go for it Terry, go for it...

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Training Camp Report

I went to the Vikes training camp this morning and came away with a few quality observations and a few opinions that seem completely valid considering I’ve watched a whole 2 hours of practice. Here’s what I got:

Quarterbacks:
Tavaris Jackson is getting the majority of reps with the first team offense, but Brooks Bollinger is getting a lot more snaps then I thought he would be. Upon closer review of T-Jack, he’s incredibly quick/shifty and has an absolute cannon for an arm (it’s even more impressive in person). That said, he looks extremely uncomfortable in the pocket and seems to get “happy feet” quite often. This is causing him to throw off of his back foot a lot and thus making his passes either short of or behind his receivers. When he does step up in the pocket, his throws are sharp and on the money. The problem is that this does not happen very often. Bollinger, on the other hand, seems very poised in the pocket and a lot less choppy with his feet and delivery. Despite that seemingly high level of comfort, he either doesn’t see the play developing fast enough or is afraid to push the ball down the field. This is resulting in him checking down a lot. I would say that Brooks gives the team the best chance to win right away, but since we’re in a major rebuilding year (with little to no expectations) Jackson will likely be lined up behind center for week 1. Oh, and in case you care, Tyler Thigpen will easily beat out Drew Henson for the third quarterback spot. He actually looks really solid at times, whereas Henson seems like he should be looking for a third baseman’s job instead of a quarterback job.

Running Backs:
AP was not in pads today, which was quite disappointing because I really wanted to see him in person. Chester Taylor probably caught the most balls out of any player on the field today. Everyone has been talking about him getting phased out by Peterson at some point this season, but I just don’t see that happening. He’s running a ton of swing, wheel, and screen routes and I really think the team will use both a lot for the whole year.

Wide Receivers:
As of right now, Bobby Wade and Troy Williamson are starting at wide out (they’re also the two deep men on kickoff returns). Wade is easily the fastest player on the team. He’s another guy who’s very impressive to watch in person, but his hands don’t seem to be very good. Speaking of which, Troy looked very good today. He caught everything thrown his way (including a spectacular 40+ yard sideline catch from Jackson) and seemed to be getting some good separation from the defense. Second round pick Sidney Rice hardly saw any time with the first team offense and it would appear that he’s no higher than fourth on the depth chart right now. The other impressive wide receivers were Jason Carter (some really nice moves, though he is tiny) and my sleeper pick to make an impact, Chandler Williams (ran great routes, saw a lot of balls come his way, and made some very good catches).

Defense:
The defense looked awesome today, completely warranting the hype that we’ve been giving them so far this summer. The linebackers, especially EJ Henderson, were everywhere making plays and our defensive backs were simply dominating. The most impressive guys were definitely fourth round pick Marcus McCauley (who’s now starting at the nickel spot) and Cedric Griffin (completely locked up anyone who came near him). They look like they could be extremely tough this year.

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Disaster

At least seven people were killed when an interstate bridge in Minneapolis, Minnesota, collapsed Wednesday evening, in what the governor called a "catastrophe of historic proportions."

These type of things are more important in life than sports and entertainment. Tragic events call for all us sports fans to put everything into perspective and realize that the saying "treat everyday as your last day" actually does make a lot of sense when something as bizarre as a bridge collapsing takes place. You never think these type of things will happen in your area but being bloggers from the Twin Cities, we were very close to the action. It's scary and our thoughts and prayers go out to all families affected.

See this link for the breaking news: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/01/bridge.collapse/index.html

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MN Sports

MN Sports

Whats up with Boston/NE taking our sloppy seconds?

1. First, the Red Sox get Fat Dave after the Twins released him and he goes wild. He is now a borderline HOF'er if he keeps his production up for 4 more years. They also won a WS with him being a major factor.

2. The Bruins get Manny Fernandez from the Wild. He used to be our franchise goalie, but the jury is still out on what he'll do in Boston.

3. The Patriots aquire Randy Moss for absolutely nothing. The Patriots were already good, but with his aquisition and others, they are now the Super Bowl favorites. He is also looking to revive his career, so the chances that he as a good season are pretty good.

4. Lastly, the Celtics aquire KG for some spare parts and a lapdance. This now makes the Celtics the favorites in the Eastern Conference and possibly even the favorites to win it all while the Wolves are quite possible the worst team in the league still lead by the worst GM.

What do the Minnesota Sports franchises have to show for this? A couple of playoff appearances(Twins & Wild), no conference/league titles, and several struggling teams. Our GM's need to be held accountable for all of this. Constantly mis-evaluating talent or refusing to go get talent should not be taken for granted around here anymore. I'm tired of only getting close because we take a misstep somewhere or even having no hope after several personnel errors. I want to see a world champion.

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Who?

The Minnesota Vikings might be your version of the Bad News Bears this year. An inexperienced QB, WR’s who have combined to do absolutely nothing in this league and an O-line that always underachieves. The one bright spot is that we have two good RB’s but only one of them can touch the ball each offensive play. The defense is solid but they aren’t going to be the Chicago Bears defense who are the only defense in NFL history to single handedly take their team to the Super Bowl.

There are a couple of rookies who might be exciting and may turn into something in the future but it’s tough for a bunch of rookies to have immediate impact. Adrian Peterson (aka A.P.) highlights the rookies and it would really surprise me if he wasn’t our best player on the offensive side of the ball this year. Sydney Rice hails from that outstanding college of WR’s known as South Carolina where the Vikes got an absolute steal a couple of years ago with Troy Williamson. Wait….Williamson is easily the worst position player drafted in the top 10 in the previous 3 years. For Vikings fans sake, lets hope Sydney turns out more like Jerry than he does Troy. We’ve also heard names like Aundrae Allison (WR) (why not Andre?) and Marcus McCauley but I never believe in these type of guys until they prove something to me. Beating Antoine Winfield on a slant or breaking up a pass thrown by Brooks Bollinger in training camp doesn’t mean a thing to me.

The head coach looks like a porn star who’s supposedly a genius from the offensive side of the ball. What do you do when you don’t have a QB who can throw the ball combined with WR’s who can’t catch the ball? You run Chester Taylor 10-15 times a game and A.P. another 15-20 times a game, throw the ball to Mewelde Moore 2 yards downfield on 3rd down and just hope he can break 4 tackles David Palmer style and somehow come up with a 1st down.

I can’t say too much negative about our defense. It might be one of the best defensive units in the league. Pat and Kevin Williams are one of the most feared DT tandems throughout the league. With the addition of Mike Doss and getting Tank Williams back will make for some big plays playing along side Darren Sharper and Antoine Winfield. Getting Chad Greenway back can only improve our LB situation and moving E.J Henderson to the middle will be a huge upgrade. This might be the best defense Minnesota fans have seen in the past 20 years.

All in all, the purple don’t look like they’ll be a factor in the NFC North yet again. There are just way too many holes that won’t be able to be filled this year. The offense might show signs of greatness at times with some of the young talent but will be extremely inconsistent. The coach will continue to look like a guy from “Debbie Does Dallas” and the defense will be a rock for 16 games. It sounds like a formula for a handful of 3-2 losses.

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Gone!

It's official. The biggest superstar in Minnesota is gone...wow.

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